Why Your Podcast Listeners Aren't Converting to Email Subscribers
Leah Bryant [00:00:02]: You've done the work on your podcast. People are listening, they're engaged, they're making it all the way through your episodes, and then they get to your email list, and it's like you're speaking a completely different language. The energy shifts, the connection feels off, and the conversion from listener to client just isn't happening. Sound familiar? I'm Leah Bryant, and this is the podcasting problem solver. Breanna Owen is an email strategist and fantastic messaging architect, and she uses human design as a practical framework to help entrepreneurs figure out where their communication is breaking down. Not the Woo woo personality quiz version of Human Design. The here's why your messaging feels exhausting and how to fix it version. Breanna, welcome to the show.
Leah Bryant [00:00:55]: Hello.
Breanna Owen [00:00:56]: Thank you so much for having me.
Leah Bryant [00:00:58]: I am so excited to have this conversation with you because I feel like even though you have been on lots of podcasts talking about this, I still feel like it's so untapped. Like, there's just so much to talk about. Lots of people may not know about it, and they should. I am relatively new to it, learning about all the things, and it's kind of exciting. So first, I want to think about my listeners in particular that may or may not have heard of Human Design. And maybe they've seen their chart and they're like, okay, cool, whatever this is on the screen. And then they don't do anything with it. And before we get into, like, the strategy piece, I would love to see if you can give us, like, a practical starting point.
Leah Bryant [00:01:44]: Say that they're new to Human design. Like, what's one part of their chart that they could maybe sit down and look at and help them create content specifically with their email?
How to Use Human Design for Email Marketing: Where to Start
Understanding Human Design Energy Types
Breanna Owen [00:01:54]: Yeah. I have to say, even as you were sharing the introduction and getting us started, like, I was feeling so excited. I was like, I want to be part of this conversation. Like, I want this so much. So I'm so grateful to be here and to have this. It's important to remember with Human Design, it is a blueprint. It is is guide rails for how you are designed to show up in a way that is most natural to you. So that when you do send out emails or you are communicating, that it is attracting the people that you want to attract, it is repelling the people that you want to repel, and it is moving people to a point of decision.
Breanna Owen [00:02:35]: So ideally that they feel good about saying yes with you. So it's really all about how are you meant to communicate, create, and connect with your audience? Okay, now, when we look at our design chart, there are a lot of pieces to it. And if you've ever seen a human design chart, maybe if you're not super familiar with it, you're going to look at it and go, those could be hieroglyphics.
Leah Bryant [00:03:00]: Like, true story.
Breanna Owen [00:03:02]: What is this supposed to tell me? I don't understand. It's a bunch of symbols and lines and numbers and like random words. So take a deep breath. That's normal. That's totally fine. While it's important to keep things in mind holistically, like we don't ever look at things only in isolation, especially for the context of this conversation, we will be talking about things in isolation a little bit just because that's easier to understand. So that being said, one of the easiest places to start is, is looking at your energy type. There are five energy types.
Breanna Owen [00:03:39]: We have generators and manifesting generators are our sacral energy types. Everybody else is non sacral. So projectors, manifestors and reflectors are non sacral. They make up only 30% of the population. Between those three types, 70% of people are generators and manifesting generators.
Leah Bryant [00:04:04]: Wow.
Breanna Owen [00:04:04]: Just for the record. So if people are out there and they're like, everybody I meet is a generator or a manigen. Yeah, probably, like you are probably going to meet a lot of them. That's kind of how it goes. But because energy type is one of the most like easily accessible pieces of your human design to find information on, like, that's why I recommend starting there. I do have a free resource on my website for people that is how to email based off of your energy type.
Leah Bryant [00:04:32]: Oh, we will link that in the notes. Hooray. Thank you.
Human Design Generator and Manifesting Generator Email Strategy
Breanna Owen [00:04:36]: So there's a ton of information in that that people can go grab because how your energy type is is like largely like how you are going to move in the world. So our generators and our manifesting generators, they respond to things externally from them. Leah, you and I are both these sacral beings, these sacral types. So we want to respond to people requesting our energy of us. Whereas like projectors are these advisors and guides and they are waiting for the invitation. So they show up very differently than generators or many gens manifestors who initiate and they inform and they trailblaze. They are gonna be way more direct and just like, here's how it's gonna go than anybody else. And then lastly, we have our reflectors who are the rarest energy type at only 1% of the global population.
Leah Bryant [00:05:33]: Wow.
Breanna Owen [00:05:34]: And they, they are super susceptible to their environment. Like what is going on in their environment, they are going to be able to to feel. So it's important that they write in an environment that feels good to them and they're going to wait a whole like lunar cycle to share reflections. What are they seeing, what are they observing? They are true reflectors of things. So their emails are going to feel very different than anybody else's as well. Starting with your energy type is probably like the easiest place to start.
Leah Bryant [00:06:10]: And that's super helpful because it gives people something concrete to look at. Right. Instead of getting overwhelmed by the whole chart. Because it could be very overwhelming.
Breanna Owen [00:06:19]: It can be, yes.
How Human Design and Email Marketing Changed Everything for Breanna Owen
Leah Bryant [00:06:20]: Right. Like when you're looking at it all, you're like, oh my gosh. But I'm curious about your own experience with this and how has knowing your own design changed the way that you write or show up in your email content, et cetera, versus like before you knew and dived into this wonderful world of human design?
Breanna Owen [00:06:40]: Yeah, when I say it changed everything, I mean it changed everything. Part of the reason why I even do the work that I do now and how I work with people is because as a marketing expert. So I've been in digital marketing for nine years.
Leah Bryant [00:06:55]: Wow, that's awesome.
Breanna Owen [00:06:56]: This June will be year 10 for me. And yet what I could do really well for others, I was struggling to do for myself and I was real tired of it, to be frank. Like I just wanted to know what do I need to say? How can I say it once people work with me as great. But like that front end marketing communication aspect, I just, I was struggling myself and so I wanted something human. Design had been in my life and had been so helpful in so many other areas. I was like, surely, surely it can give guidance and insight to this too. Over the guessing, like I already said. So I loved the fact that when I figured all of this out and I started looking at my personal chart, my personal chart is a generator.
Using Human Design for Content Creation: Profile Lines and Motivation
Breanna Owen [00:07:47]: So generators need to be talking about what they are doing, what they are building, what brings them satisfaction, what brings them joy. And so that quickly helped me filter in. Okay, what am I enjoying right now? What do I love doing? How do I love working with my clients? Great, let's talk about that in email. Knowing my profile line. So personally, my profile line are 5 and 1. So the 5 line brings really tangible practical solutions to people. Okay, what, what tangible practical solutions do I bring to my clients? Great, let's talk about that. And the one line is the expert and the authority.
Breanna Owen [00:08:27]: So one lines bring not just the what, not just the how, but a lot of the why. One lines do their research. They love a rabbit hole.
Leah Bryant [00:08:37]: Love it.
Breanna Owen [00:08:37]: They get so excited. Yeah. Because not everybody. Which is just so wild. It's so wild when you realize like not everybody enjoys the things you do. Not everybody finds the same things easy. Not everybody hates and struggles with the things that you do. So it is a little bit wild for me to be like, you don't love like a good old Google search.
Breanna Owen [00:08:59]: Like you don't love a good old fashioned, like, let's go figure this out. What. But people don't. And because one lines can do so much research, they're also really good teachers. And so it's like what information do I need to bring to people? Like what processes and what systems can I teach them about? Because they don't want to learn it from themselves. They want me to teach it to them. And so even just those few things helped me focus in on. Oh, okay, here's how I show up.
Breanna Owen [00:09:28]: The third piece that I really love looking at for people is your motivation. And personally my motivation is desire. And desire is ambitious. And desire is a go getter. Desire likes to light a fire under people. So between my five line being also a bold visionary leader. Let's go get it. And that desire motivation that also helped give me again guide rails on.
Leah Bryant [00:09:57]: Right.
Breanna Owen [00:09:58]: What it could sound like for me when I show up in my emails.
Leah Bryant [00:10:02]: I love that. Oh my gosh.
Breanna Owen [00:10:04]: Right.
Leah Bryant [00:10:05]: So good. And like the piece when you talked about like the one being the, like the researchers. All the things. Right. Like so I'm a 1 3.
Breanna Owen [00:10:14]: Yeah.
Leah Bryant [00:10:15]: And I do love me some good investigative work, y'.
Breanna Owen [00:10:17]: All.
Leah Bryant [00:10:17]: And you know this.
Breanna Owen [00:10:19]: Yeah.
Leah Bryant [00:10:19]: I was telling somebody the other day, I was like, well that makes sense why I was a fraud investigator and really loved what I did because yeah. I'm like, you give me a good Google search.
Breanna Owen [00:10:28]: Yep.
Leah Bryant [00:10:28]: Rabbit holes here I come.
Breanna Owen [00:10:30]: Right. That three line for you is that experimenter. The three line is the let's figure this out. How will this work? How will that go? You're a manigen too, Leah, and the Manigens are the master of the pivots. Between being a manigen and having your three line in alignment, you don't ever really get stuck because you're so quick to be like, well, that didn't work. Let's try it a different way. Let's go around over here.
Leah Bryant [00:10:57]: That's so true.
Breanna Owen [00:10:58]: But like not everybody is like that.
Leah Bryant [00:11:00]: I'm so sorry. Yeah.
Breanna Owen [00:11:03]: So you get to show us how you pivot. You get to show us what you are experimenting with and what is working and what isn't working from a three line. We really love a blooper reel type of a thing. So if you are a podcaster with a three line, if you could give us every now and then just like add a little bit at the end of your episode of your outtakes.
Leah Bryant [00:11:27]: Yes. I'm clapping because I had this conversation with my husband the other day about doing this specific thing to my podcast. Yes, Bloopers that I'm like, I get tongue twisted. My country shows a lot.
Breanna Owen [00:11:41]: We love it. We love to see it from you so much. And you're observed, so we like to see you in action. So we really want to see that. Otherwise, you know, your emails might be talking about because it's harder to show the bloopers in an email, but maybe with your emails, it's talking about, like, what didn't go as well, or, you know, oops, I thought I. I did this entire podcast episode and then realized I never hit record. Or, you know, like, what are those things that just show us the humanness? If you have a three line in your profile, like, we don't want to see the polished version of you. We want to see their, like, version raw, authentic, human you.
Leah Bryant [00:12:25]: I am writing a note because this exact thing just happened to me where I recorded an episode, was trying to get ahead, but the episode that I recorded was after it was all said and done, I was like, oh, this is so similar to the episode that I just recorded. And that was like, on me not thinking things through, et cetera, et cetera. And I was like, okay, mistake made. But we're not gonna use it as a mistake. We're just gonna pivot correct and use it someplace else. And I was like, I'm making myself a note because I need to share that in an email.
Breanna Owen [00:12:55]: Yes, absolutely. Because you teach the rest of us who don't have those three lines that mistakes are not a big thing, that there's really no such thing as failure because nothing is wasted. At the very least, if you learn from it.
Leah Bryant [00:13:09]: Yes.
Breanna Owen [00:13:10]: Then that you have still won.
Leah Bryant [00:13:12]: So true.
Breanna Owen [00:13:13]: And you teach us that, you show us that and you remind us of that and it's. It's something that we need.
Leah Bryant [00:13:20]: Oh, my gosh, that's so awesome. I'm going to try not to have the show be all about Leah here. But that was amazing. Thank you very much.
Breanna Owen [00:13:28]: But, like, already we're just, you know, a handful of minutes in, and already you could see, like, oh, okay. Yes, because there's so much there that you don't have to worry about. All you have to do is focus on these things and you're good.
How to Convert Podcast Listeners to Email Subscribers Using Human Design
Leah Bryant [00:13:42]: It's so good. It's also making me think about the podcasters that I work with when I do, like, a Get found audit. And one of the things that I do when I look at is how well, like, the episode content is actually setting their listener up to take action. So, like, whether that's subscribing to their email, booking a call, or whatever that conversion goal is, and like, what you're describing and all this is like almost like the same kind of, like, investigative work. Right. Where you're looking at patterns that people can't see in their own communication. And if you're listening and wondering, A, how you work with Brianna, that will be in the show notes, and then B, whether your podcast is moving people toward your offers or if there's a disconnect between your episodes and your email conversions, then you need to book a Get found audit because it will walk you through exactly what's working and what needs adjustments. I will put all those links below so you can work with both of us and it'll be fabulous.
Breanna Owen [00:14:39]: Yes, please do.
Welcome Sequence Strategy: Selling in Email Marketing for Entrepreneurs
Leah Bryant [00:14:41]: Okay, so let's get tactical. What do you think the best way is to leverage our human design? I know we may have kind of like covered some of that just a second ago. You mentioned the ones are like the teachers. So, like, I could lean into teaching with a bit of storytelling. Well, I'll just use me for an example because I feel like sometimes examples and explanations work better.
Breanna Owen [00:15:05]: Yeah.
Leah Bryant [00:15:05]: So, like, if I wanted to specifically focus on selling, is there a time, place, like, how do I know where, when, what to fit that in? Or is there. Would love to know your thoughts on that.
Why You Should Always Be Selling in Email Sequences
Breanna Owen [00:15:18]: Well, my thoughts on selling, particularly selling an email, is that you should always be selling an email.
Leah Bryant [00:15:26]: Oh, yes, I love it.
Breanna Owen [00:15:29]: Especially if you're thinking of something like a welcome sequence, which is probably where people are going to interact with you in between the podcast. If you're moving someone from the podcast episode and moving them into your email list, there's probably some sort of a welcome orientation experience that will happen. Right. This is gonna feel like a hard tangent, but just stick with me here. If you walk into a store, I used to work at a Banana Republic. I have a fashion degree, and I was an associate manager for a Banana Republic for several years. If somebody walked into the store and was like, hey, I'm here for a pair of jeans, I need A new pair of jeans. I got a hot date on Friday.
Breanna Owen [00:16:13]: I want to look good from every angle. Could you imagine if I were to say, oh, my gosh, I love that so much. First, let me tell you the history of our business.
Leah Bryant [00:16:24]: Oh, yeah.
Breanna Owen [00:16:25]: I'm going to tell you a few fun facts about me.
Leah Bryant [00:16:28]: Oh, yeah, right. Like, oh, my goodness, I see this.
Breanna Owen [00:16:31]: You would be like, no, I. I just want a pair of jeans. Can you please just help me find some jeans? Like, I'm here for jeans. I want to walk out with jeans. I want to give you my money. Why are you taking 20 minutes to get to the point where you could say, like, absolutely, Here are specials. Here's what's going on. Can I help you find the right pair of jeans that'll fit you? So when we do that, when we take four or five emails in our welcome sequence to sell to people, people are like, why?
Leah Bryant [00:17:00]: Why?
Breanna Owen [00:17:01]: Just tell me what I want to know from the beginning. So I'm actually a big fan of selling often. I love that even in your welcome sequence, you can be selling early, like
Leah Bryant [00:17:13]: email one type thing, or. Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Leah Bryant [00:17:19]: Yes.
Breanna Owen [00:17:20]: You came here for these reasons. This is the thing you want. Here you go. You could very easily do a quick little, like, here are the ways to work with me, by the way. You get into this, you look at it, maybe it's a PDF, right? Maybe it's a guidebook of some kind. Here's the guidebook. Here's the link to access the guidebook. You're going to love this.
Breanna Owen [00:17:40]: And at the end of the guidebook, you're going to want to know how to work with me. Here are the three ways people can work with me, or here's the one way people can work with me, or whatever. Whatever your thing is. Right. But yeah, in the very beginning, give them the opportunity to take a closer step with you.
Leah Bryant [00:17:58]: The way that you just broke that down blew my mind because I had never thought about it like that. Yeah, save the nurturing for later.
Breanna Owen [00:18:04]: Right?
Leah Bryant [00:18:05]: Like all that jazz.
Breanna Owen [00:18:06]: Yeah.
Leah Bryant [00:18:07]: They're there for a reason.
Breanna Owen [00:18:08]: Yeah.
Leah Bryant [00:18:09]: Give them the reason. Give them the options. Oh, my goodness.
Breanna Owen [00:18:14]: And to your point, those other emails are still in place. You can still have the, like, hey, here's a little bit more about me. If they need a little bit more of that nurturing, that's fine. But, like, don't hold out on them.
Leah Bryant [00:18:26]: Yeah.
Breanna Owen [00:18:27]: Is all I'm saying. I love that now how you do that. What? That sounds like that is where I go into what? Well, what does your chart say? Yeah, for anybody else who has kids, they will appreciate the fact that. Or maybe it's the millennial in me. I can't remember anymore at this point, but whenever I think of what does the chart say in my head, it sounds like, what does the chart say? Yes, just fun. Little side note. So, like, this is where we go into your chart, because again, using your profile lines, you know, as a one line. A one line would tell me, like, hey, what about some sort of a guidebook that teaches them something? Let's teach them a framework.
Breanna Owen [00:19:07]: Let's teach them a process. Let's. Right. And then, you know, your three line might be like, here's how to not get stuck, or here's how to get unstuck, or here's how to pivot, or here's how to, like, you know, whatever the things are that your people are going to struggle with. Well, how can you help them, like, move around those obstacles and minimize those obstacles? Right. So we have that. We have your motivation, which, Leah, you are also desire motivation. And.
How to Use Your Motivation Type to Write CTAs That Convert
Breanna Owen [00:19:36]: And so again, you can use your motivation to frame up your CTAs. Yes. So what is it that you want from your podcast? What is it that you're going for? Like, yes, how do you want to get this? Like, do you want to do this even faster? Again, ambitious, I think. What's an ambitious, audacious goal? You want to be a top 1%.
Leah Bryant [00:19:57]: Yes.
Breanna Owen [00:19:57]: Podcast.
Leah Bryant [00:19:58]: A hundred percent.
Breanna Owen [00:19:59]: This is what happens when people work with me.
Leah Bryant [00:20:01]: Oh, my gosh. I love it.
Breanna Owen [00:20:02]: Right. And so, like, but you know, like, hope motivation or fear motivation. Fear motivation sounds bad. It's not. It's just people need safety and security in order to say yes to feel good about taking the next step. So if you are fear motivated, it would be like, what kind of information can you give people to help them feel safe in taking the next step with you? How do you have backup plans for your backup plans? Like where desire motivation, like, lights a fire in people? Fear motivation is like a cold bucket on all of their worries and stresses that have them spinning out. And so, like, those would be very different angles to take depending on where you're at.
Podcast to Email Funnel: Why Your Email List Is Already Ready to Buy
Leah Bryant [00:20:45]: Oh, my gosh, this is so good. I love that you said, always sell in your email, because I say this in every podcast episode. You should be selling in every single episode. Right. So why wouldn't I translate that to email? Yeah. Oh, my gosh, why have I not?
Breanna Owen [00:20:59]: And even more so if you're moving people from a podcast to the email.
Leah Bryant [00:21:03]: Yeah.
Breanna Owen [00:21:04]: They know what they're doing. Right, right.
Leah Bryant [00:21:06]: Exactly. They're primed. They're ready. Yeah.
Breanna Owen [00:21:09]: They're taking that step for a reason.
Leah Bryant [00:21:10]: Yes.
Breanna Owen [00:21:11]: Now, Leah will be going back and updating her email.
Leah Bryant [00:21:14]: Yes, yes, I will.
Breanna Owen [00:21:16]: To plug a little audit or work with me in email number one.
Leah Bryant [00:21:21]: Or I'll just have to reach out to Brianna to see if she's got space on her calendar. Yeah, I can work with her that, too. Here's what I want you to take away from today's conversation. Your email list isn't a different audience. It's the same person who just finished your episode. And if the energy or language, the you that shows up in your episode doesn't carry over into the inbox, that's where the disconnect happens. That's where your listeners stall instead of converting. So I want you to start simple.
Leah Bryant [00:21:56]: Pull up your chart, look at your energy type, grab Brianna's free resource. I'll link it in the description below and in the show notes because it will give you a concrete starting point for how you're actually wired to communicate. Brianna will be back tomorrow, and we're getting into something. I know a lot of you have been thinking about what human design really means for how you show up with your voice, specifically as a podcaster. Thanks for being here today. And remember, keep your podcast purposeful, keep it strategic, and keep your growth seamless, and I'll see you next time.
