Quiz for Lead Generation and Why This Converts Better Than a Lead Magnet with Maiko Sakai

Why Your Podcast Audience Isn't Converting

The Problem Isn't Your Content

Leah Bryant [00:00:03 - 00:00:54]:
[00:00:03] you're putting out episodes and building trust. [00:00:06] People are listening and then nothing. [00:00:11] No opt ins, DMs are quiet and no sales are happening despite all your best efforts. [00:00:19] So I want you to think about this question. [00:00:22] What if the problem isn't your content? [00:00:26] What if it's that your listeners don't have a way to see themselves in what you're teaching? [00:00:34] And that's exactly what we're getting into today. [00:00:37] I'm your host, Leah Bryant, and welcome to the Podcasting Problem Solver. [00:00:41] Today's guest builds the bridge between I hear you and I need you. [00:00:48] And once you hear how she does this, you'll look at your entire funnel differently.

Leveraging Email for Podcast Growth

Leah Bryant [00:00:54 - 00:01:50]:
[00:00:54] This month we're going deep on email, specifically how podcasters can use it strategically, both in their business and as a growth tool for the podcast itself. [00:01:04] And today's conversation is a perfect example of why email is not only a follow up tool, but also where your podcast starts to convert. [00:01:14] My guest today is Maiko Sakai. [00:01:17] She is a high conversion quiz design strategist. [00:01:20] She builds diagnostic style quizzes that take cold problem aware leads and move them through segmented email journeys designed to convert rather than relying on generic lead magnets. [00:01:33] Her work centers on structured self recognition so prospects identify their gaps before a sales conversion even begins. [00:01:42] The outcome is fewer casual subscribers and more ready to buy clients. [00:01:48] Well, yes, please and thank you.

Maiko Sakai [00:01:53 - 00:01:56]:
[00:01:53] Yes. [00:01:53] I'm so excited to be here. [00:01:55] Thank you.

Leah Bryant [00:01:56 - 00:02:30]:
[00:01:56] Thank you so much for being here. [00:01:57] I love it. [00:01:58] So before we get into the mechanics, I want to name something that I see constantly with my clients. [00:02:07] So they're doing all the right things, right. [00:02:10] With their content. [00:02:11] They're putting out consistent episodes with the solid topics and they're adding that genuine value that we consistently tell them to do. [00:02:20] But their list is full of people who never buy or their audience is tuned in but never takes the next step. [00:02:30] Right.

Why Quizzes Are a Game Changer for Lead Conversion

Leah Bryant [00:02:31 - 00:02:59]:
[00:02:31] And the assumption is always, oh, I need more downloads first, or I need a bigger audience. [00:02:38] But that's not necessarily always the problem because most podcasters already have a website check. [00:02:45] An audience of some capacity. [00:02:46] Right, Right. [00:02:47] So how would you say a quiz fits into what's already there? [00:02:52] And is it necessarily a replacement for a lead magnet or something else?

Maiko Sakai [00:02:59 - 00:03:27]:
[00:02:59] Right. [00:03:00] That's a great question to get started. [00:03:03] First and foremost, I wanted to clarify that there's nothing wrong with lead magnets. [00:03:08] I even have them depending on what I'm doing. [00:03:11] Like, for example, you know, I might be showing up for a virtual summit and I get email subscribers from that. [00:03:18] But the Conversion rate for that type of static lead magnet. [00:03:23] So it could be a checklist, right. [00:03:25] It could be a planner, you know, potentially.

Maiko Sakai [00:03:27 - 00:04:10]:
[00:03:27] Or it could be a guide or mini ebook. [00:03:31] You know, those things are static, right? [00:03:32] Like a two dimensional, you know, downloadable most of the time PDF or something like that. [00:03:38] Conversion rate for that is about 3%. [00:03:40] And when I say conversion, that means somebody putting their email address to get it. [00:03:45] You know, consider that to be one form of conversion. [00:03:49] You know, of course there's a sales conversion, other conversions, but let's just say that's a start. [00:03:54] But on the other hand, a dynamic lead generation tool like a diagnostic style quiz. [00:04:02] So it's not like a Buzzfeed or trivial quizzes, you know, I'm talking about more of a insightful diagnostic style quiz.

Maiko Sakai [00:04:11 - 00:04:12]:
[00:04:11] That's over 40%.

Leah Bryant [00:04:13 - 00:04:17]:
[00:04:13] Wow, 3% versus 40%.

Maiko Sakai [00:04:18 - 00:04:18]:
[00:04:18] Yep.

Leah Bryant [00:04:18 - 00:04:20]:
[00:04:18] Oh my goodness. [00:04:20] Right.

Quizzes as Strategic Podcast Assets

Maiko Sakai [00:04:20 - 00:04:59]:
[00:04:20] But then again, there are many different types of quizzes where they can be. [00:04:27] Most of the business operators are looking at quizzes to be another form of a lead magnet. [00:04:32] And I'm here to flip the script on that. [00:04:35] To say it's an asset as much as your email list is an asset. [00:04:41] Right. [00:04:42] No one can take that away from you so long as you comply with all the regulations when it comes to all those email communications, whatnot. [00:04:50] Your quiz is an asset to give your potential buyers a space to self discover themselves.

Leah Bryant [00:04:59 - 00:05:21]:
[00:04:59] Yeah, that's so interesting. [00:05:01] So we're not necessarily burn it all to the ground, right? [00:05:06] We're taking what's already there and we're adding like a layer essentially, right? [00:05:12] Yep. [00:05:12] And with that diagnostic quiz. [00:05:15] So like when you say diagnostic quiz, is that more or less like, is that like a personality quiz?

Maiko Sakai [00:05:21 - 00:05:25]:
[00:05:21] It doesn't really have to be. [00:05:23] Sometimes it could be readiness, right?

Leah Bryant [00:05:25 - 00:05:26]:
[00:05:25] Oh, readiness. [00:05:26] Okay.

Maiko Sakai [00:05:26 - 00:05:45]:
[00:05:26] Right. [00:05:27] Although I always say do not rank your outcomes. [00:05:32] You know, the quiz outcomes, there might be, you know, three different outcomes of five or eight. [00:05:37] You know, the sweet spot is anywhere from four to eight. [00:05:40] Otherwise you know, the back end can get a little bit cumbersome.

Leah Bryant [00:05:45 - 00:05:45]:
[00:05:45] Okay.

Maiko Sakai [00:05:45 - 00:06:22]:
[00:05:45] If you can keep it in that range, that would be great. [00:05:49] But your outcomes shouldn't be something like a beginner, novice, intermediate, advanced. [00:05:55] Only because people don't want to be labeled or scored. [00:05:59] Yes. [00:06:00] So even if say one outcome represents maybe not so ideal clients, let's just say even then you want to name them something that they can be prouder, you know, they're just different. [00:06:16] Maybe you may not work with them, but that doesn't matter. [00:06:20] Right. [00:06:21] Everything has to be intentional.

Maiko Sakai [00:06:23 - 00:07:17]:
[00:06:23] There basically what this does is for them to get a language that they didn't have before. [00:06:31] So oftentimes a lot of people are problem aware. [00:06:35] Well, some people aren't, but most of them are. [00:06:38] That's why they're tuning into your podcast. [00:06:40] Right? [00:06:41] Better themselves or grow their business or get healthier, you know, all those things. [00:06:47] So they're circling around their problems most of the time, trying to articulate what they're going through. [00:06:54] And what your quiz does is more so giving them a way to express it. [00:06:59] So once they get an outcome, whatever it might be, you know, it could be a silent strategist or something like, let's just say they go, oh, I didn't know that that wasn't my forte or my strength or my, you know, I don't like the word superpower, but you know what I mean?

Leah Bryant [00:07:17 - 00:07:18]:
[00:07:17] Yeah, yeah.

Maiko Sakai [00:07:19 - 00:07:27]:
[00:07:19] So from there, I think I can figure out how to solve this problem, but I will need help. [00:07:25] See where I'm going with it?

Leah Bryant [00:07:27 - 00:07:59]:
[00:07:27] Yes. [00:07:28] I love, love, love, love. [00:07:32] I love one more time that reframe. [00:07:35] Because I feel like that's going to land for people that's listening right now, that's really going to help kind of like drive that home. [00:07:42] That at least that helped me. [00:07:43] And I feel like that's going to help my audience, too. [00:07:45] So walk me through what cold but ready to buy. [00:07:51] Like, what does that really mean? [00:07:52] How does a quiz attract someone who's never heard of you but is already problem aware?

Turning Cold Problem-Aware Listeners into Buyers

Maiko Sakai [00:08:00 - 00:08:06]:
[00:08:00] Right. [00:08:00] Let me address the differentiation between warm audiences and, you know, cold. [00:08:06] These.

Leah Bryant [00:08:06 - 00:08:07]:
[00:08:06] Thank you.

Maiko Sakai [00:08:07 - 00:08:35]:
[00:08:07] Right now. [00:08:08] Not that I think most people understand the differentiation, and especially your listeners probably do, but what I wanted to bring to the table is the fact that you need your warm audience, for sure. [00:08:22] They cheer you on, they support you. [00:08:24] You know, they may comment on your social media post. [00:08:26] You know, they're around. [00:08:28] Right. [00:08:29] We need that segment for sure. [00:08:32] But notice, some of them will never buy from you.

Maiko Sakai [00:08:36 - 00:09:10]:
[00:08:36] They love you dearly, but they're never going to buy from you. [00:08:41] Now, let's talk about cold leads or cold about ready to buy leads, they are problem aware and they behave completely different from your warm audience. [00:08:52] For example, they don't want to get on the call with you. [00:08:55] And until they do their own due diligence, okay, they want to do their own research. [00:09:03] They want to stay quiet until they realize that this is it, she is the solution.

Leah Bryant [00:09:10 - 00:09:10]:
[00:09:10] Okay?

Maiko Sakai [00:09:11 - 00:09:49]:
[00:09:11] So for that reason, oftentimes business operators put this thing called the premature commitment frictions in front of them because they don't behave the Same. [00:09:23] Oh, yeah, your warm audience want that, you know, your warm audience want to promote, probably receive DMs from you or emails. [00:09:31] Of course, that's the topic of this month. [00:09:34] Or getting on the call just to explore possibilities to, you know, work with you. [00:09:39] That's their unique behavior. [00:09:40] But the cold but ready to buy people don't want to do that. [00:09:45] Sometimes they even say, just give me that link for payment.

Leah Bryant [00:09:49 - 00:09:51]:
[00:09:49] Oh, yeah, yeah.

Maiko Sakai [00:09:51 - 00:10:33]:
[00:09:51] Like, why are you making so convoluted that I cannot find that payment link? [00:09:57] That means you are actually leaving lots of money on the table. [00:10:01] That's where I'm getting at. [00:10:03] So my definition of cold but ready to buy leads, they are experienced buyers. [00:10:11] Most likely what they're going to buy from you isn't their first investment in their business or in their lives. [00:10:18] They want to do their own due diligence on their own terms and on their own time. [00:10:25] So you need to create a container or a space, if you will, specifically cater to them for them.

Leah Bryant [00:10:34 - 00:10:40]:
[00:10:34] Aha. [00:10:35] Like on your website, in your quiz, in your email, all of the above for those people.

Maiko Sakai [00:10:40 - 00:11:16]:
[00:10:40] Yep. [00:10:41] And the most important part is that I think most business owners are doing half of it right, Meaning they're making themselves available. [00:10:49] So through their content. [00:10:50] Right. [00:10:51] Through their podcast shows, through their email newsletters, all of those things. [00:10:56] You just have to focus more on making yourself available just so that those cold, silent buyers can find you when the right moment hits. [00:11:07] Because what they also do is that when they're looking for a solution, they want it now. [00:11:13] Not tomorrow, not two weeks from now.

Maiko Sakai [00:11:17 - 00:11:35]:
[00:11:17] So you need to make yourself available. [00:11:19] But the beauty of this quiz funnel, once you build that system to receive those buyers, then that Mechanism is running 247 without you showing up. [00:11:33] Yes, exactly.

Leah Bryant [00:11:35 - 00:11:45]:
[00:11:35] Oh, my gosh. [00:11:35] That is such a key distinction too, because they're not cold like you said to the problem, they're just cold to you, Right?

Maiko Sakai [00:11:45 - 00:11:45]:
[00:11:45] That's correct.

Leah Bryant [00:11:45 - 00:12:14]:
[00:11:45] And the quiz becomes the thing that closes the gap faster that a content series could never do. [00:11:54] Right, Right. [00:11:55] Okay, so now let's get into what makes this kind of lead different. [00:12:00] So how is a quiz lead fundamentally different from someone who downloads a checklist, maybe? [00:12:09] Like, why would that matter for conversion so oftentimes?

Quizzes vs. Lead Magnets: What Makes Quiz Leads Different?

Maiko Sakai [00:12:14 - 00:12:38]:
[00:12:14] I mean, let's, you know, for a second think about what we did. [00:12:17] Was somebody else's lead magnet. [00:12:20] You know, I. [00:12:20] I remember myself pretty recently downloading something. [00:12:25] I remember it could have been like an infographic kind of thing. [00:12:28] Useful, Right? [00:12:29] Let's not say that the lead magnets are useless. [00:12:32] That's not what I'm here to say, you know, that's not it. [00:12:36] They have a purpose.

Maiko Sakai [00:12:38 - 00:12:46]:
[00:12:38] Right. [00:12:39] And it's easy to grab it. [00:12:41] And also that's convenient because you know, you don't need to get on the call to get it all those things.

Leah Bryant [00:12:46 - 00:12:46]:
[00:12:46] Right.

Maiko Sakai [00:12:47 - 00:13:17]:
[00:12:47] But what I did was it was I downloaded it, I looked at it and I set it aside to say, you know, maybe over this weekend I'm going to revisit and see what I can implement from there, you know, but oftentimes that never happens, it never comes. [00:13:03] Right. [00:13:03] And it start collecting that, you know, so called digital dust. [00:13:08] On the other hand, you are capturing two to three minutes of someone's attention by giving them an insightful quiz.

Leah Bryant [00:13:18 - 00:13:18]:
[00:13:18] Yeah.

Maiko Sakai [00:13:18 - 00:14:01]:
[00:13:18] And they're going through with it. [00:13:20] They don't know what the outcome is going to be. [00:13:22] Obviously that's based on a specific quiz design so that it's not predictable. [00:13:27] You need to design it in such way that the people wouldn't bounce out in the middle of your quiz but they will finish taking it. [00:13:37] That'll be two to three minutes or in some cases up to five minutes if it's somewhat extensive. [00:13:43] But then they get their results immediately, at least on their phone or on, you know, on your laptop. [00:13:50] But they would enter their email address to get those results and you would ensure that your results pages are so jam packed with values. [00:14:00] There's a way to do that.

Maiko Sakai [00:14:01 - 00:14:09]:
[00:14:01] They're going to be blown away by what they're discovering at that point. [00:14:07] You already have their buy in.

Leah Bryant [00:14:09 - 00:14:10]:
[00:14:09] Oh, I love that.

Maiko Sakai [00:14:10 - 00:14:36]:
[00:14:10] Because they feel like they've been seen, heard and understood. [00:14:15] Oh, she speaks my language. [00:14:18] Yes. [00:14:19] That's the, you know, reaction that you are going for with this tool. [00:14:24] So that's a huge difference between downloading a static, you know, lead magnet versus interacting with a quiz and be mind blown by the results.

Leah Bryant [00:14:37 - 00:15:05]:
[00:14:37] Oh, most definitely. [00:14:38] Because the checklist is just going to give me a bunch of information versus the quiz is essentially going to be a mirror. [00:14:47] That's a completely different psychological experience for me because one is creating an action and the other is creating like you said, a download that's just going to sit there and create all the dust on the Internet street and never get used.

Maiko Sakai [00:15:06 - 00:15:07]:
[00:15:06] Exactly. [00:15:07] Yeah.

Quiz Funnels: Journey from Interaction to Conversion

Leah Bryant [00:15:07 - 00:15:27]:
[00:15:07] And that's the thing, right. [00:15:08] Because the quiz doesn't create the intent, it is giving it somewhere to go. [00:15:15] Right. [00:15:16] So can you give us an example here? [00:15:18] Maybe like walk us through what that would look like, the quiz, the result, like yeah. [00:15:25] What happens next for the listener.

Maiko Sakai [00:15:27 - 00:15:33]:
[00:15:27] Yeah, of course. [00:15:29] So maybe this is A good time to share a story.

Leah Bryant [00:15:33 - 00:15:34]:
[00:15:33] Love it.

Maiko Sakai [00:15:34 - 00:16:07]:
[00:15:34] Yeah. [00:15:35] So this person took my quiz a few years ago or so and she saw one way, meaning that, you know, she always considered herself as a community builder. [00:15:49] So all of her activities, like business activities, were all about building a community and being behind the scenes, supporting those members, you know, supporting the community. [00:16:01] And she took my quiz only to find out that she wasn't it.

Leah Bryant [00:16:07 - 00:16:08]:
[00:16:07] Oh, wow.

Maiko Sakai [00:16:08 - 00:16:15]:
[00:16:08] Her being a community builder was secondary, but her primary was that she is actually a brand.

Leah Bryant [00:16:16 - 00:16:16]:
[00:16:16] Wow.

Maiko Sakai [00:16:16 - 00:17:08]:
[00:16:16] So she was more like an influencer. [00:16:19] After she took my quiz, there was something interesting that happened. [00:16:23] She was so impressed by it and she realized, you know, the results were on point, so she didn't hire me, which is okay, because what she realized was, I have to make this shift from being a community builder to a brand. [00:16:40] I need help there. [00:16:41] So she hired a selfie photograph specialist and started building her brand and her business took off. [00:16:49] So even though she didn't become my client directly, even years later, she talks about that story over social media and I don't ever ask her to do that, but in a way that is promoting my business. [00:17:04] Right. [00:17:04] That is a ripple effect that I am getting.

Maiko Sakai [00:17:08 - 00:17:45]:
[00:17:08] So basically once they realize something about themselves, you know, they self discover something, they're more inclined to take next steps. [00:17:18] So what happens after they take, you know, say your quiz is that now they're on your email list. [00:17:26] Now your email sequence will trigger and kick in so that you get to nurture them over time. [00:17:34] That area you get to customize. [00:17:36] So you may have three part email series or you could have 11 part part email series. [00:17:42] It's up to you. [00:17:43] Right. [00:17:43] Because you know your audience better.

Leah Bryant [00:17:45 - 00:17:45]:
[00:17:45] Right.

Maiko Sakai [00:17:45 - 00:17:56]:
[00:17:45] And you know how to solve their problems better. [00:17:47] So you craft your email sequence there. [00:17:51] And most of them should have some type of cta.

Leah Bryant [00:17:56 - 00:17:56]:
[00:17:56] Yeah.

Maiko Sakai [00:17:56 - 00:18:33]:
[00:17:56] You know, say you're a podcaster, you have a quiz, they come to your quiz and they realize that, oh, maybe I need to subscribe to your podcast. [00:18:08] So it could be going on ecosystem cycle. [00:18:11] Right. [00:18:12] So One of the CTAs can be that or another CTA can be, here's my three part video series to get, you know, familiarized with your archetype so that you know what you have to do. [00:18:26] Or it could be just get on the call like you're ready. [00:18:29] Yeah, book a call. [00:18:31] Don't beat around the bushes and get on the call.

Leah Bryant [00:18:34 - 00:18:57]:
[00:18:34] Oh, I love that. [00:18:36] And I love that you walked us through like the whole art too. [00:18:39] Because what I'm hearing too is that by the time that someone kind of goes through this and they get to the sales conversation, they're already done convincing themselves. [00:18:52] And you're not really selling them, you're confirming what they already know.

Maiko Sakai [00:18:57 - 00:18:57]:
[00:18:57] Exactly.

Leah Bryant [00:18:57 - 00:19:01]:
[00:18:57] And that's such a huge different energy than a cold pitch.

Maiko Sakai [00:19:02 - 00:19:41]:
[00:19:02] Exactly. [00:19:03] And also that shifts your conversation during your sales calls as well, if you do them right. [00:19:10] Like let's say I work with clients who sell high ticket offers. [00:19:15] At one point, your clients have to get on the call with you because we're not talking about $97 offer. [00:19:22] Right. [00:19:22] It could have been 5,000, 7,500, those things. [00:19:25] So, yes, that's natural. [00:19:27] But instead of you walking them through with problem identification, your solution, your process and your results during that sales call, all you're doing is just confirming.

Maiko Sakai [00:19:41 - 00:20:06]:
[00:19:41] They may have a couple of questions, you know, about the pricing or when they can get started, or the intensity of the workload required for them to get the kind of results they want. [00:19:54] Those are all legit questions. [00:19:56] Right. [00:19:56] But they're just confirming. [00:19:58] So at the end of your sales goal, all you're doing is that here are the next steps. [00:20:03] I'll see you then. [00:20:04] To kick off. [00:20:05] That's it.

Leah Bryant [00:20:06 - 00:20:29]:
[00:20:06] I love it. [00:20:07] Okay. [00:20:07] Not to back up for a minute, but I do wanna back up for a minute. [00:20:10] When we were talking about the email sequence that follows the quiz, what's that like? [00:20:15] Because I'm guessing, yes, the quiz itself is magical, but the magic doesn't just lie in the quiz itself. [00:20:23] I'm sure that there is some of that that follows into the email sequence after that.

Crafting the Perfect Quiz Email Sequence

Maiko Sakai [00:20:29 - 00:20:46]:
[00:20:29] Yep, absolutely. [00:20:30] You want it to be seamless. [00:20:32] So there are many ways to go about it. [00:20:34] But the first email doesn't. [00:20:37] The first email is pretty solid, static and unchanged, which is to give them a PDF version of the results.

Leah Bryant [00:20:46 - 00:20:47]:
[00:20:46] Oh, that's smart.

Maiko Sakai [00:20:47 - 00:21:08]:
[00:20:47] Because once they navigate away from your quiz page, they're not going to remember. [00:20:54] They may remember the archetype name at least, but the details they wanted to hold on to. [00:20:59] But there's no way for them to hold on to that information. [00:21:03] So the first thing you wanted to do is to make sure that the first email fires off immediately.

Leah Bryant [00:21:08 - 00:21:09]:
[00:21:08] Smart.

Maiko Sakai [00:21:09 - 00:21:16]:
[00:21:09] With a copy of that results page so they feel like they're getting something tangible.

Leah Bryant [00:21:16 - 00:21:16]:
[00:21:16] Love it.

Maiko Sakai [00:21:16 - 00:21:54]:
[00:21:16] Yeah. [00:21:17] So that's the first step. [00:21:19] And the second, the third, the fourth, you know, nurturing sequence. [00:21:23] So well, the second email can also be introducing yourself. [00:21:27] Right. [00:21:28] Because to that point, people who took your quiz don't know you and don't care about you. [00:21:34] They're all about their self discovery. [00:21:37] So it is a good time to introduce yourself that you know I am the creator of this quiz and maybe share some origin story about why you did what you did and how you crafted it and you know, what type of problems it solves, then go on and on.

Maiko Sakai [00:21:54 - 00:22:25]:
[00:21:54] It could be some testimonials, you know, it could be user generated content. [00:21:58] You know, there are many things that you can do to sort of guide them through it. [00:22:01] Because don't get me wrong, like my job is to help design that mechanism so that you can convert faster and you can sell faster. [00:22:12] But even then some of those cold buyers need some time so the email sequence is best suited to help them out with that.

Leah Bryant [00:22:25 - 00:23:15]:
[00:22:25] So it's equally as important as the quiz. [00:22:28] Okay, I have to pause this right here because I don't want this conversation to get lost in the scroll. [00:22:33] What she's describing is this idea of giving your listeners a mirror instead of a to do list. [00:22:40] And that's exactly what the attraction phase of my seamless podcast framework is all about. [00:22:45] Getting found is more than showing up. [00:22:47] It's all about being recognizable to the exact person who needs you. [00:22:53] And what a quiz does is speed up that recognition in a way that a content series alone just can't. [00:23:00] We're going to pick up this conversation tomorrow, and Maiko is going to walk us through the most common mistakes people make when building quizzes, including the one that kills conversions before the quiz even launches.

Leah Bryant [00:23:15 - 00:23:32]:
[00:23:15] Plus, we're going to be getting into some tech, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss that episode when it drops. [00:23:22] And remember, keep your podcast purposeful, keep solving those podcasting problems, and above all else, keep your growth seamless. [00:23:30] And I'll see you next time. [00:23:32] Bye for now.