How to Grow Your Email List from Your Podcast with Allison Hardy

Why Every Podcaster Needs Email Marketing

The Gap in Podcast Monetization and Listener Nurturing

Leah Bryant [00:00:03 - 00:00:41]:
[00:00:03] You have a podcast and if you're not growing an email list from it, you, my friend, are leaving money on the table. [00:00:11] Your listeners are warming up to you every single week when they're listening to you. [00:00:15] And by that I mean they're hearing your voice and they're clicking your links. [00:00:19] As I always tell you, call to actions are important, right? [00:00:22] And then nothing. [00:00:24] And you have no way to reach them or, or to nurture them and no way to sell to them outside of the podcast when you're ready. [00:00:34] And that's the gap that we are going to close today. [00:00:36] And I'm so excited. [00:00:38] I'm Leah Bryant and this is the Podcasting problem Solver.

Introducing Email Expert Allison Hardy

Leah Bryant [00:00:41 - 00:01:46]:
[00:00:41] We are closing out the Email Marketing Strategies Month with the perfect guest. [00:00:47] Allison Hardy is an email marketing strategist for coaches and online business owners who want to sell their offers on autopilot without constantly launching or living on social media. [00:00:57] Through her signature membership Emails that sell, she helps entrepreneurs create high converting email funnels that do the heavy lifting so they can spend more time living and less time hustling. [00:01:09] With over a decade of experience, Allison has been featured in the Huffington Post, named one of Washington DC's most influential professionals under 40, and built a multiple six figure business while raising two kids and redefining what success looks like for CEO moms. [00:01:25] She's also the host of the Email Empower podcast and if you're not listening to it, you should be known for her punchy messaging, zero fluff strategies, and her ability to make her email feel actually fun. [00:01:38] And she really does. [00:01:39] You all definitely go sign up. [00:01:40] Allison is the tough love marketing bestie you didn't know you needed and today she is here.

Leah Bryant [00:01:47 - 00:01:48]:
[00:01:47] Welcome Allison to the show.

Allison Hardy [00:01:48 - 00:01:51]:
[00:01:48] Leah, I'm so happy to be here. [00:01:50] Thank you so much for having me.

Leah Bryant [00:01:51 - 00:02:25]:
[00:01:51] Thank you so much. [00:01:52] I'm really excited for this conversation and I'd really love to start at this question because I talk to podcasters on the daily and email is always an afterthought. [00:02:05] Always, always. [00:02:07] Right. [00:02:07] They're focused on their downloads and sharing their episodes on socials and email is just not at all on their radar. [00:02:16] So I would love to hear your thoughts on why in your opinion, podcasters can't afford to treat email as an afterthought.

Why Email Marketing is Essential for Podcasters

Allison Hardy [00:02:25 - 00:02:37]:
[00:02:25] Yeah, well, so email marketing is the most algorithm proof, I would argue trend proof way that you can sell your stuff.

Leah Bryant [00:02:37 - 00:02:38]:
[00:02:37] Yeah.

Allison Hardy [00:02:38 - 00:03:10]:
[00:02:38] So if you're only selling through your podcast, so let's just say you're only relying on your podcast. [00:02:45] People are listening to your podcast While they do something usually like, I do not sit on my couch and listen to a podcast. [00:02:52] Right. [00:02:52] You're usually doing something. [00:02:53] I'm always driving kids somewhere. [00:02:56] And so when I am driving kids somewhere, I pop in a podcast. [00:03:00] Or if I'm sitting on baseball bleachers and I have no one to talk to, I pop in a podcast if I'm unloading the dishwasher, because I hate doing that and I hate doing laundry. [00:03:08] If I'm doing those things, I'm listening to a podcast.

Allison Hardy [00:03:10 - 00:03:18]:
[00:03:10] I'm not like, sitting there waiting for the link. [00:03:13] Like, that's not how I consume. [00:03:15] And I would argue most people are that way.

Leah Bryant [00:03:18 - 00:03:19]:
[00:03:18] Yeah.

Allison Hardy [00:03:19 - 00:03:30]:
[00:03:19] So if nothing less, an email list will help you monetize that relationship and the expertise you have with your podcast listeners.

Leah Bryant [00:03:30 - 00:03:41]:
[00:03:30] Yes. [00:03:31] And I think that's really important too, because the algorithms can change at any point in time on socials and in the podcasting space too. [00:03:41] Right?

Allison Hardy [00:03:41 - 00:03:42]:
[00:03:41] Like, yeah.

Leah Bryant [00:03:42 - 00:03:59]:
[00:03:42] And the distinction too, between a following and a list is important because you can have tens of thousands of listeners and zero people can actually reach you when you launch something. [00:03:57] I think that's a terrifying place to be.

Allison Hardy [00:03:59 - 00:04:05]:
[00:03:59] Yeah. [00:03:59] Yeah. [00:04:00] And you can also have the opposite. [00:04:02] So your podcast can have not a ton of listeners.

Leah Bryant [00:04:05 - 00:04:06]:
[00:04:05] Yes.

Allison Hardy [00:04:06 - 00:04:31]:
[00:04:06] Mine doesn't. [00:04:06] I get like 500 downloads a week, which is, like, good. [00:04:09] Right. [00:04:09] But like, I'm like 400 episodes in. [00:04:12] You would think I'd have a lot more than that. [00:04:14] But those people, you better believe, are the people that buy from me, and they're the ones that join my email list. [00:04:18] So I think, like, podcasts are an amazing way to develop that know, like, and trust factor and to talk about your programs in a really, like, service value based way. [00:04:29] But you gotta get those people around to your email list.

Allison Hardy [00:04:31 - 00:04:32]:
[00:04:31] Cause that's how they're gonna buy.

Why Your Podcast Freebie Isn’t Building Your List

Leah Bryant [00:04:33 - 00:04:46]:
[00:04:33] So, so true. [00:04:35] All right, so someone's convinced now. [00:04:37] They are so convinced they're ready, they want to start building their list. [00:04:41] The first thing everyone tells them is create a freebie. [00:04:46] And they do.

Allison Hardy [00:04:46 - 00:04:47]:
[00:04:46] Yep.

Leah Bryant [00:04:47 - 00:04:58]:
[00:04:47] Then nothing happens. [00:04:49] Nobody is signing up. [00:04:50] Or people sign up and immediately are ghosting or unsubscribing. [00:04:56] What do you think is going on there?

Diagnosing Freebie and Lead Magnet Mistakes

Allison Hardy [00:04:59 - 00:05:36]:
[00:04:59] I think there's a couple of things. [00:05:01] So number one, is your lead magnet actually, like, valuable? [00:05:05] Do people actually want it or did you just decide that it was valuable? [00:05:09] I think a lot of times lead magnets don't hit or people say they don't work. [00:05:15] They're totally a waste of time. [00:05:17] It's because the thing that you're offering up people don't actually want. [00:05:21] So there's that. [00:05:22] I also think a lot of times the audience isn't right for the lead magnet. [00:05:27] So if you're doing a podcast episode on a topic and then you offer up the lead magnet and it's on a different topic, like, you don't have that audience there. [00:05:34] Like, they're not going to download that.

Allison Hardy [00:05:36 - 00:06:35]:
[00:05:36] So I think, like, quality of subscriber is really important and how they came into your email list is really important. [00:05:43] I also think if they ghost you or if they unsubscribe immediately, they're probably not ideal anyways. [00:05:51] But also, do you actually have anything that happens after the lead magnet? [00:05:55] Like, do you have a nurture sequence that's actually valuable? [00:05:58] I think that a lot of things can be solved in the online marketing space when you can answer for your people, like the what's in it for me Question. [00:06:06] So why should I sit there and download your lead magnet? [00:06:10] Why should I read your emails? [00:06:12] Like, what am I going to learn, gain or get from that information? [00:06:16] I think a lot of times we approach things from our perspective because we're the ones making it, and rightfully so. [00:06:21] I get that. [00:06:22] But also, like, it's not about us as a business owner. [00:06:26] It's about actually helping those people that are listening and reading and subscribing. [00:06:30] So are you actually doing that? [00:06:32] And I think, like, if the answer is yes, then I think your funnel probably works.

Allison Hardy [00:06:35 - 00:06:43]:
[00:06:35] I think your emails probably work. [00:06:36] I think people are listening to your podcast and opening your emails because they know, oh, great, this is going to be like super high value for me. [00:06:42] And they're like, yeah, let's do that.

Leah Bryant [00:06:44 - 00:06:47]:
[00:06:44] I love that reframe too, of let's put ourselves in their shoes.

Allison Hardy [00:06:47 - 00:06:47]:
[00:06:47] Yeah.

Leah Bryant [00:06:48 - 00:06:53]:
[00:06:48] A, the quality and then also the specificity of it. [00:06:51] You know, is it really what they want?

Allison Hardy [00:06:53 - 00:06:54]:
[00:06:53] Yeah.

Leah Bryant [00:06:54 - 00:07:09]:
[00:06:54] Because I also see podcasters create these giant resources and guides and libraries of all the things, and then they wonder why, like, nobody is biting at what they're putting out, but it's really not what their audience is needing or wanting.

Allison Hardy [00:07:09 - 00:07:09]:
[00:07:09] Yeah.

Leah Bryant [00:07:09 - 00:07:14]:
[00:07:09] And like, it's more or less like the broad is the enemy of this conversion.

Allison Hardy [00:07:14 - 00:07:16]:
[00:07:14] Yes. [00:07:15] Or it's too much.

Leah Bryant [00:07:17 - 00:07:17]:
[00:07:17] Yes.

Allison Hardy [00:07:17 - 00:07:39]:
[00:07:17] So sometimes as the experts in the room and people who just want to help people, we tend to just give too much. [00:07:24] And so your people think about it. [00:07:27] If they're like in a pain point, they're experiencing something. [00:07:30] If you give them like a 45 page document that's like super valuable. [00:07:36] But like, so Robust. [00:07:38] Like they're already overwhelmed.

Leah Bryant [00:07:39 - 00:07:40]:
[00:07:39] Yes.

Allison Hardy [00:07:40 - 00:08:05]:
[00:07:40] They're not going to read that thing and they're definitely not going to implement. [00:07:44] The minute you confuse someone or you overwhelm someone is when you lose them. [00:07:48] So I think a lot of times also lead magnets, while highly valuable, not what your people want. [00:07:54] And that kind of like, goes back to my original point. [00:07:56] I think sometimes it's too much. [00:07:58] And they also think when they're consuming that, like, why would I ever buy from this person? [00:08:02] They've given me everything I need in this free download.

Leah Bryant [00:08:05 - 00:08:19]:
[00:08:05] Look, I am making a note because I am guilty of fire hosing my audience. [00:08:12] We all are, you know, with information, Right. [00:08:15] Oh, my goodness. [00:08:16] That is so good. [00:08:17] I love this so much. [00:08:18] Thank you so.

Allison Hardy [00:08:20 - 00:08:28]:
[00:08:20] But it's so true though. [00:08:21] I think, like, we just want to help people, right? [00:08:22] Yeah, let's just help people. [00:08:24] Like, let's give them everything they need and set them up for success. [00:08:27] And it totally invalidates.

Leah Bryant [00:08:28 - 00:08:29]:
[00:08:28] Yes.

Allison Hardy [00:08:29 - 00:08:29]:
[00:08:29] Everything you do.

Leah Bryant [00:08:29 - 00:08:53]:
[00:08:29] Yes, yes, yes. [00:08:30] Thank you for that. [00:08:31] Wow. [00:08:32] That was something that I needed personally, so that was amazing. [00:08:35] I would love to shift to talk about the podcast itself as a list building engine, because as you know and have said, your podcast is already, like producing content every week. [00:08:46] It should be working harder than just entertainment. [00:08:49] We're not just here entertaining or just educating. [00:08:51] It should also be working for us.

How to Use Your Podcast to Grow Your Email List

Leah Bryant [00:08:54 - 00:09:01]:
[00:08:54] So I would love to hear how maybe even how you use your podcast episodes to grow your list without it feeling like a constant pitch.

Allison Hardy [00:09:02 - 00:09:12]:
[00:09:02] Yeah, I think it's not a constant pitch. [00:09:05] Even if you are pitching, if it's from a place of like, this will actually help you. [00:09:09] Right. [00:09:09] And you're answering that what's in it for me Question. [00:09:11] Right.

Leah Bryant [00:09:12 - 00:09:12]:
[00:09:12] Yes.

Allison Hardy [00:09:12 - 00:09:50]:
[00:09:12] So I actually have taken my podcast and I've changed my podcast drastically this year. [00:09:19] It used to be very broad, more like female entrepreneur focused, which was fine, but I realized that it was a good lead generator for me, but it could be doing better. [00:09:30] So I really shifted my expertise to like being the only thing I talk about on the podcast. [00:09:37] I reduced the interviews I used to do every other week. [00:09:40] And now just one episode a month at the very last Monday of the month is an interview. [00:09:44] And it's me talking to that person, though, about email marketing. [00:09:47] It's not talking about their zone of genius, it's talking about how they're using email marketing.

Leah Bryant [00:09:50 - 00:09:51]:
[00:09:50] Yes.

Allison Hardy [00:09:51 - 00:10:48]:
[00:09:51] And yeah, their zone of genius that gets woven in. [00:09:53] There's still a lot of benefits to being a guest on the podcast, but I think that has been really Helpful. [00:09:59] And then I've also broken the podcast down into like my like pillars. [00:10:05] And like, what do I actually talk about in my nurture sequence? [00:10:08] What do I talk about in my pitch sequence? [00:10:10] What do I teach? [00:10:11] And I teach little parts of that on the podcast. [00:10:14] And then I'm not perfect on this, but I try to always have some sort of connection back to a lead magnet. [00:10:20] So, hey, if you found this helpful and this is like the audio, I'll give you an actual video of this where you can consume it, you know, at your pace, on two times speed, if that's what you want to do or, you know, whatever it is, here's a link to get the video version of this or if you want the next step in this process, here's a link to get that. [00:10:38] Also, I kind of reverse engineer the episodes based around my lead magnets and my programs. [00:10:44] And so I'll weave like my program, my membership into episodes.

Allison Hardy [00:10:48 - 00:11:07]:
[00:10:48] I'll leave my VIP day into the episodes. [00:10:52] And that's been really helpful for generating leads. [00:10:55] But also having people who like listen to the podcast then DM me on Instagram and be like, how can I buy from you? [00:11:00] Like, that's been really helpful too. [00:11:02] So I think like those couple of things have really helped to start to generate more leads, especially this year.

Leah Bryant [00:11:07 - 00:11:29]:
[00:11:07] Yes. [00:11:08] And everybody just pause and listen because this is exactly what I have talked about over and over and over again. [00:11:15] Allison is building bridges. [00:11:18] Yes, she is building those bridges. [00:11:20] She is making the opt in feel like a natural next step. [00:11:25] It doesn't feel weird. [00:11:26] It doesn't feel anything. [00:11:27] It is just the natural progression.

Leah Bryant [00:11:29 - 00:11:40]:
[00:11:29] It is part of the journey. [00:11:31] It is that bridge that they're just walking right across. [00:11:34] Oh, it's so good. [00:11:35] So thank you for that. [00:11:36] You're welcome. [00:11:37] Not an interruption. [00:11:38] It's just leading them right through.

Reverse Engineering Your Podcast for Strategic List Building

Allison Hardy [00:11:40 - 00:12:18]:
[00:11:40] And I think that is like, part of that is it's hard to figure out how to do that. [00:11:44] I wanted to say that, like, I'm 400 episodes in and I feel like I finally just figured it out. [00:11:47] So, like, it does take time. [00:11:49] But I also think if you can think about it from that strategic perspective, like, okay, like, yes, we want to help people, but also, like, how is this helping me? [00:11:57] I'm spending all this time, I'm spending all this freaking money. [00:11:59] I'm spending so much, like worrying about the hooks and the pre roll and the beat, all the stuff, like, is it actually helping me? [00:12:05] Is that work that I'm putting in worth it? [00:12:07] And I think that's also when you can comment it from that perspective. [00:12:11] It helps you to be more strategic because you're like, oh, this is actually helping me in my business. [00:12:15] Or it's not. [00:12:16] So what do I need to do to change that?

Leah Bryant [00:12:19 - 00:12:25]:
[00:12:19] Yes. [00:12:19] And I think though, that too, that it is hard. [00:12:22] But the key point that you said is the reverse engineering.

Allison Hardy [00:12:25 - 00:12:25]:
[00:12:25] Yes.

Leah Bryant [00:12:25 - 00:12:51]:
[00:12:25] So if you put yourself in the seat of your ideal person, who's listening, client, et cetera, and you reverse engineer of where you want them to go with your topic, then you'll be able to map out those steps. [00:12:37] You can reverse engineer that bridge and that's perfect. [00:12:41] So it's like almost like when your freebie is literally the thing that someone wants more after listening, that conversion is almost taking care of itself, just like you said, because they're coming to your DMs doing all the things. [00:12:51] I love that.

What Makes a Great Welcome or Nurture Sequence?

Leah Bryant [00:12:52 - 00:13:09]:
[00:12:52] So someone finds the freebie, they download it, they're on your list. [00:12:57] Now walk us through, like, what a solid welcome sequence looks like. [00:13:01] Because I think a lot of people have an opt in confirmation email and then they're just like calling it a day and that's it.

Allison Hardy [00:13:09 - 00:13:27]:
[00:13:09] I see that a lot. [00:13:10] Or I see a welcome sequence that is centered around them. [00:13:14] Like, oh, I wrote this blog post. [00:13:16] I'd love for you to listen to it. [00:13:17] I was a guest on this podcast. [00:13:18] It's really great. [00:13:18] I'd love for you to listen. [00:13:20] When I go back to my original thought about this is like, what's in it for them? [00:13:25] So what needs to happen in your.

Allison Hardy [00:13:27 - 00:13:56]:
[00:13:27] And I call it a nurture sequence. [00:13:28] I don't even call it a welcome sequence. [00:13:29] What I what needs to happen in your nurture sequence is your people downloaded your lead magnet to solve a pain point. [00:13:37] Right. [00:13:37] There's something that they wanted out of it. [00:13:39] And then if we like fast forward a little bit for your program that you're going to sell, people are going to solve a singular pain point through it. [00:13:47] So we have this gap that's created and the nurture sequence is what fills in that gap. [00:13:52] So whenever you resolve a pain point, a new pain point emerges.

Allison Hardy [00:13:57 - 00:14:30]:
[00:13:57] So with the lead magnet, you solve the pain point. [00:13:59] So what's the new one that's there? [00:14:01] Right. [00:14:02] And I know this can be like a hard thing to wrap your head around at first, but if we think it through, there's usually something else that happens as a result of it. [00:14:10] So each of those emails in that nurture sequence solves the previous pain point, but then opens up a new one. [00:14:16] So some people think of this as, like, closing and opening gaps. [00:14:19] Some people think of it as, like, resolving pain points and then creating pain points. [00:14:23] However you want to think about it, either way, whatever gets you there, that's fine. [00:14:27] But each email in that nurture sequence does that.

Allison Hardy [00:14:30 - 00:15:07]:
[00:14:30] It exposes a pain point, it resolves a pain point, and it exposes another one. [00:14:34] And so you're going to get your people to the point where the only logical next step is for them to enroll in your program. [00:14:41] And what that does is it qualifies them for your pitch. [00:14:44] It gets them to think and do and be differently. [00:14:46] We're not looking to change people. [00:14:47] We're looking to get them to get out of their own way. [00:14:50] And I always think about it as shifting beliefs, because when we shift beliefs, we then usually do differently because you think about it first and then you act. [00:14:59] So things like quick wins, client stories, not from a way of like, I'm amazing, but like, this is what this person did and this is what's possible.

Allison Hardy [00:15:07 - 00:15:18]:
[00:15:07] When you have this system in place and just making sure, like, the what's in it for them? [00:15:13] Question is actually answered, that you're actually being helpful in those emails. [00:15:16] I think that's really, like, the root of it.

Leah Bryant [00:15:19 - 00:15:32]:
[00:15:19] Oh, my gosh. [00:15:19] I love that framing because it's not just the delivery, it's a relationship ram. [00:15:24] Yeah, right. [00:15:25] Like, you're not just like, handing over the goods. [00:15:29] You're starting a conversation. [00:15:31] Yeah, I love that so much.

Using Video & Relationship-Building in Email

Allison Hardy [00:15:32 - 00:15:58]:
[00:15:32] Yeah. [00:15:33] And I'm a fan of always having video in your nurture sequence, because let's call it like, it is like, people buy from us because they know, like, and trust us. [00:15:40] Right. [00:15:41] That's kind of like marketing one on one. [00:15:42] But one of the fastest ways is through video. [00:15:45] And I'm not saying they have to be like, beautifully created videos. [00:15:48] They can literally just be like you and your phone. [00:15:50] I think it's a really important factor in the sales process, especially if your people are buying any bit of, like, a you situation.

Allison Hardy [00:15:58 - 00:16:13]:
[00:15:58] So, like, if they're in a membership or a group coaching program, like, they're getting part of you probably at some point. [00:16:03] So it just helps you to be a person. [00:16:06] And I think in today's world, that's really helpful and important and just helps people feel more, like, taken care of.

Leah Bryant [00:16:13 - 00:16:16]:
[00:16:13] Oh, goodness. [00:16:14] Okay, fellow introverts.

Allison Hardy [00:16:16 - 00:16:20]:
[00:16:16] I know, I'm an introvert too. [00:16:17] I get it. [00:16:18] I got it. [00:16:19] But we gotta do it.

Leah Bryant [00:16:20 - 00:16:21]:
[00:16:20] We can do it.

Allison Hardy [00:16:21 - 00:16:28]:
[00:16:21] Maybe schedule a nap after you do it. [00:16:23] Really, you gotta do something. [00:16:25] We could do it. [00:16:26] We are gonna do it. [00:16:27] We can do her things.

Leah Bryant [00:16:28 - 00:16:40]:
[00:16:28] We can. [00:16:29] We so can. [00:16:30] So I hear this constantly from my own clients and if I'm honest myself too sometimes I don't wanna email too much.

How Often Should You Email Your List?

Leah Bryant [00:16:40 - 00:16:41]:
[00:16:40] Yeah, nobody does.

Leah Bryant [00:16:41 - 00:16:42]:
[00:16:41] I don't wanna annoy people.

Allison Hardy [00:16:42 - 00:16:43]:
[00:16:42] Yeah, nobody does.

Leah Bryant [00:16:45 - 00:16:50]:
[00:16:45] I would love to hear your thoughts on frequency. [00:16:47] And what's the cost of emailing too little?

The Risks of Emailing Too Little

Allison Hardy [00:16:51 - 00:17:01]:
[00:16:51] Well, emailing too little is they forget about you and then you pop in their inbox and they're like, who is this person? [00:16:55] I'm going to unsubscribe. [00:16:56] Yeah, I would rather people unsubscribe because they know that you're not for them instead of like who is this?

Leah Bryant [00:17:01 - 00:17:02]:
[00:17:01] Good point.

Allison Hardy [00:17:03 - 00:17:48]:
[00:17:03] So I always encourage people to like double their email efforts than what they're doing because you're probably not emailing enough. [00:17:10] Maybe not you, Leah, but folks who are listening for like business to business, you can email every day now there's like a capacity thing to hear, right? [00:17:22] So I think like the best answer is like whatever is actually sustainable for a year for you. [00:17:30] Now I think you should be emailing at a minimum once a week. [00:17:34] I think that is like a non negotiable. [00:17:36] But you know, I'll have weeks where I email three times, I'll have weeks where I email two, I'll have weeks where I email five. [00:17:41] And it's just because like that's the capacity that I have that week. [00:17:44] Maybe I have a really creative week. [00:17:46] Maybe I've got a lot of stuff going on so I wanna tell everybody about the things.

Allison Hardy [00:17:49 - 00:18:21]:
[00:17:49] But if you're again answering that what's in it for me question, like you're fine. [00:17:55] People are gonna see value in what it is that you're doing and they're gonna stay on your email list. [00:17:59] And like I said earlier, if they don't stay on your email list, that's okay. [00:18:02] Part of email marketing is siphoning people out because you pay per subscriber, right. [00:18:08] Or for like the group of subscribers. [00:18:10] So like them unsubscribing is actually saving you money. [00:18:13] And when they unsubscribe, they help your open rates, they help your click rates. [00:18:17] Because if they weren't opening and clicking to begin with, like they're not going to continue and that's only going to bring those down.

Allison Hardy [00:18:22 - 00:18:23]:
[00:18:22] Did that make sense?

Leah Bryant [00:18:23 - 00:18:32]:
[00:18:23] That made total sense. [00:18:24] And I'll have to say being on your email list, like, yeah, I love it. [00:18:27] Your frequency is fabulous. [00:18:29] Yeah, not annoyed. [00:18:31] Love all the information.

Allison Hardy [00:18:32 - 00:18:34]:
[00:18:32] Yeah. [00:18:32] See and I email pretty often.

Leah Bryant [00:18:34 - 00:18:35]:
[00:18:34] Yeah.

Allison Hardy [00:18:35 - 00:19:04]:
[00:18:35] Yeah. [00:18:35] Some weeks it's like every day, because that's just how it is. [00:18:39] Um, but hearing you say that like kind of validates what I was just saying. [00:18:41] Like, yes, as long as it's actually valuable, people are okay. [00:18:46] And if you're worried that you're emailing too much, you can look at your stats, you can look at your data. [00:18:51] If you see your open rate drastically tanking and your click rate going down drastically, then yes, maybe you are emailing too much and you can spread it out a little bit. [00:19:00] But I would argue if you double your emails, your open rates and your click rates will not change.

Leah Bryant [00:19:05 - 00:19:30]:
[00:19:05] All right, so the key there is that col list. [00:19:08] You know, it's a real thing. [00:19:09] They're much harder to revive. [00:19:10] So email the folks, they will appreciate it. [00:19:14] So you talk a lot about selling on autopilot, which I love. [00:19:18] And I think that a lot of coaches and service providers who are still doing every launch manually, like that sounds almost too good to be true sometimes.

The Minimal Viable Email Funnel for Podcasters

Leah Bryant [00:19:30 - 00:19:40]:
[00:19:30] So I would love to make this concrete. [00:19:33] What does a minimal viable funnel look like for someone who maybe has never set one up? [00:19:38] Yeah, like at a high level, if you want to share.

Allison Hardy [00:19:40 - 00:20:06]:
[00:19:40] Yeah, that's a great question. [00:19:41] So you have lead magnet download, you have nurture sequence. [00:19:44] So that's maybe three to five emails that bring them through those steps I talked about. [00:19:48] And then a pitch sequence. [00:19:50] We have seven different buyer types in our audiences. [00:19:53] So your pitch sequence, each email in your pitch sequence should address those different buyer types. [00:19:58] And that's it. [00:19:59] What you can do after that pitch sequence, I always get this question is roll the people who don't buy onto like your regular mailing list.

Allison Hardy [00:20:07 - 00:20:47]:
[00:20:07] I am a fan of like a 12 month funnel, but I realize for folks who are just starting out, that seems like a lot. [00:20:12] So we don't need to do that quite yet. [00:20:14] But you could continue to build that funnel out like after people go through that, that's fine, they can put onto that mailing list. [00:20:22] But what if you were to add a re engagement sequence or a flash sales sequence? [00:20:26] Like what if you were to continue to add upon that so that eventually becomes a 3 month, 6 month, 12 month funnel. [00:20:32] And your people are constantly getting, you know, here's some really helpful stuff. [00:20:36] Here's a way to think about this differently. [00:20:38] Here's a way to do this differently than thinking about this and you know, being the person who set this all up, they're taken care of for like 12 months. [00:20:46] And that sounds pretty cool too.

Leah Bryant [00:20:48 - 00:21:05]:
[00:20:48] And I appreciate that you're not making it like I sound like we need like 17,000 integration and a tech team to make all this happen. [00:20:56] Because I think that's a lot of time what scares people off. [00:20:59] Especially like people that I talk to when, you know, we start talking about email, they're like, oh, gosh, no. [00:21:04] So I love that.

Allison Hardy [00:21:05 - 00:21:22]:
[00:21:05] No, it's exhausting. [00:21:06] Like the whole, like, yes, we can have all that, we can have automations, we can have a tech team, we can have integrate all the stuff we can segmenting and all those things work. [00:21:15] Because everything works, right? [00:21:16] Everything in marketing works. [00:21:18] It's just a matter of like, what actually works for you.

Leah Bryant [00:21:22 - 00:21:22]:
[00:21:22] Yes.

Allison Hardy [00:21:22 - 00:21:40]:
[00:21:22] And it's figuring it out. [00:21:24] And maybe you do just want a lean funnel, maybe you do want a 12 month funnel with a whole bunch of segmentation and that's cool too. [00:21:30] But like, you also never know until you try it. [00:21:32] So part of it also is like getting it set up and being like, okay, like, does this actually work for me? [00:21:37] Because that's the thing that will get your results no matter what you do.

Leah Bryant [00:21:40 - 00:21:44]:
[00:21:40] So, so, so true. [00:21:42] I love that so much. [00:21:43] All right, last question.

Email Marketing Myths & Mistakes Podcasters Still Make

Leah Bryant [00:21:45 - 00:21:57]:
[00:21:45] And it might be a big one, but what's one thing that you wish podcasters understood about email that most people in our space are still sleeping on?

Allison Hardy [00:21:57 - 00:22:37]:
[00:21:57] Ooh, that's a great question. [00:22:00] So I think a lot of one of the mistakes that podcasters make, especially when it's building out that nurture sequence, is like, oh, I have a podcast episode on that, I'll just put it in here into that email. [00:22:11] And while I totally get that logic, it is not the appropriate format. [00:22:18] People, again, don't listen to podcasts while they're sitting at their desk. [00:22:21] And I would argue most of the time, at least when it comes to your business, you're probably like checking your email, like at your desktop. [00:22:28] Right. [00:22:28] So if you serve other business owners, I don't think that's effective. [00:22:33] Also, the content that's in that nurture sequence needs to be consumable.

Allison Hardy [00:22:37 - 00:23:04]:
[00:22:37] If you produce 30 to 60 minute podcast episodes and you're sending out emails in a nurture sequence every other day or every day, like, are people actually going to keep up with that? [00:22:46] Probably not. [00:22:47] So it's also a matter of like, setting your people who are consuming your content up for success. [00:22:52] So not that I don't think you shouldn't talk about your podcast and your nurture sequence, but I don't think it should be the thing you lead with unless your business is a podcast, which I would argue most people's is not.

Leah Bryant [00:23:04 - 00:23:17]:
[00:23:04] Not. [00:23:04] Yes. [00:23:05] Okay. [00:23:06] All the things in my notes, permanently, that free frame. [00:23:09] That's amazing because you're right. [00:23:12] Like, if I look at my analytics, majority of people are reading emails from their desktop.

Allison Hardy [00:23:17 - 00:23:24]:
[00:23:17] Yeah. [00:23:17] And that's a great point too. [00:23:18] You can see that information. [00:23:20] So t keep that in mind as you're creating, you know, formats and things like that.

Best Practices for Email Length & Content

Leah Bryant [00:23:25 - 00:23:28]:
[00:23:25] I did say that that was the last question, but selfishly, I have one more question.

Allison Hardy [00:23:28 - 00:23:29]:
[00:23:28] Yeah, let's hear it.

Leah Bryant [00:23:29 - 00:23:38]:
[00:23:29] Is there like a standard? [00:23:31] Because I've heard, I've seen all the things. [00:23:33] I would love to know your opinion because I trust your opinion and value it on the length of an email.

Allison Hardy [00:23:39 - 00:23:41]:
[00:23:39] Oh, yeah, it's always a question.

Leah Bryant [00:23:42 - 00:23:44]:
[00:23:42] And that is the last one, I promise.

Allison Hardy [00:23:44 - 00:24:09]:
[00:23:44] No, I love. [00:23:45] I could talk about this all day. [00:23:46] Leah, I do think shorter is better. [00:23:48] Not because I think that, but for our current marketing space and how people are consuming content generally these days, shorter is better. [00:23:58] I mean, think about like, reels and like, how they changed our attention spans. [00:24:02] Right. [00:24:02] I would argue there was a massive shift in people's attention spans once reels came out. [00:24:07] TikTok is an example.

Allison Hardy [00:24:09 - 00:24:35]:
[00:24:09] Right. [00:24:09] YouTube has, what do they call them, shorts now. [00:24:12] Like, that's not new, but like, I think that our attention spans are smaller. [00:24:17] That being said, it's also like who your ideal client is. [00:24:21] I am on a guy's email list. [00:24:22] He's like a life coaching person and he sends these long emails out every morning. [00:24:28] I love them. [00:24:29] I like, wake up with coffee by reading them and it takes me like five or seven minutes to read them because they're long.

Allison Hardy [00:24:35 - 00:24:44]:
[00:24:35] But I'm okay with that because of how I consume this content. [00:24:38] So I think like, yes, shorter is better, but also who are your people and what do they have time and space and capacity for?

Where to Find Allison Hardy & Resources for Podcasters

Leah Bryant [00:24:44 - 00:25:00]:
[00:24:44] I love that. [00:24:45] Okay, Alison, this has been the most amazing conversation. [00:24:49] Thank you so much. [00:24:52] But before I let you go, where can people find you? [00:24:55] Learn more about you. [00:24:56] I know they're going to want to come work with you. [00:24:58] All the things please share with the audience.

Allison Hardy [00:25:01 - 00:25:03]:
[00:25:01] Yeah. [00:25:01] Well, thank you for having me, Leah. [00:25:02] This has been a really fun chat.

Leah Bryant [00:25:03 - 00:25:04]:
[00:25:03] Of course.

Allison Hardy [00:25:04 - 00:25:28]:
[00:25:04] Okay. [00:25:04] My membership is called Emails that Sell. [00:25:06] I teach you my email funnel process. [00:25:10] I view it as, like, done with you because you get my trainings, you get my templates, you get my AI bots. [00:25:15] We have group coaching calls. [00:25:16] So it's everything. [00:25:17] You need to set up an email funnel that is like three to six months long in small chunks so you're not overwhelmed. [00:25:23] I have a video series for folks that already have a funnel set up.

Allison Hardy [00:25:28 - 00:25:52]:
[00:25:28] It's called Funnel Fix and it helps you identify maybe where your funnel is falling short, why it's not performing like the way you think it should. [00:25:35] That can be found@alisonhardy.com funnel fix and then come find me on Instagram alisonhardy. [00:25:45] Send me a DM. [00:25:46] Say hi. [00:25:46] I'd love to chat with you and learn more about you and your business and just become people to each other.

Leah Bryant [00:25:52 - 00:26:16]:
[00:25:52] I love it. [00:25:53] Thank you so much. [00:25:54] I will make sure all of those are linked in the show notes so nobody has to go scramble. [00:26:00] You can go find Allison, go listen to her amazing podcast, go build that list. [00:26:04] Thank you again so much for being here, Alison. [00:26:06] It's been so much fun. [00:26:08] And if this episode had you thinking, I need to actually do something about my email list. [00:26:13] Good, because that is the point, my friend.

Leah Bryant [00:26:16 - 00:26:33]:
[00:26:16] Your podcast is already doing the work of warming people up. [00:26:20] Your email is how you catch them when they're ready. [00:26:23] Don't let that moment pass because you didn't have a way to stay in touch. [00:26:27] So, with that in mind, keep your podcast purposeful and keep your growth seamless, and I'll see you next time.